Is it possible to appreciate the life of Jesus Christ in a real way that embraces the universal message and mystery, but also finds harmony with a fundamental approach to logic and reason? Can an esoteric perception of the divine find a home inside metamodern spirituality?

We continue exploring an evolving perception of God and the many faces of Jesus Christ, the central pillar of Christianity, in the newest conversation with Aviv Shahar and Brendan Graham Dempsey. Brendan is a metamodern leader who combines a personal experience with Christianity and a pioneering exploration of metamodern thinking and philosophy.

In a lively exchange, Brendan and Aviv explore different appreciations of the transformative power that spiritual seekers feel in the many facets of Jesus Christ. Could the religious influence that changed the course of human history have naturally emerged as part of a complex, evolving human species? Or can the esoteric pursuit of a deeper truth reveal the divine nature of Christ’s appearance?

Many enlivening insights emerge, including:

• The best defense of spirituality is rigorous, critical thinking; integrating nuanced, sophisticated perspectives with an openness to deep esoteric experiences.
• Some religious traditions can be seen as privileging the irrational: just have faith, and quote a lot of scripture when people ask uncomfortable questions.
• When you come back from a peak experience, it’s essential to engage in what we describe as a rational or debrief process to help separate the real from the unreal.
• Experience is a valid source of evidence; we can look to it without necessarily bringing down the skeptical, critical, prefrontal-cortex analysis and do science on it.
• We talk about the soul not as another dogma or form of teaching, but as a guidance to discover a path in ourselves where we can travel to the edge of what we know.
• There is a moment where you feel you can emerge to a unique combination that is not just the thrill of your mind quivering with new ideas, but is more than the biochemistry of your brain.

This conversation is part of the continuing Portals discovery into what is emerging on the frontiers of human experience in this time of profound change. Information about upcoming special events can be found on the Events page. Also visit and subscribe to our YouTube channel.